'Pope Francis wanted more women in Church leadership'

When the College of Cardinals gathers in the Sistine Chapel for the third conclave in 20 years, they will face a complex question: should they choose a successor who will continue Pope Francis’s vision, or chart a different course?

Francis’s leadership style was evident early in his papacy. In contrast to his predecessors, he urged bishops to shed hierarchical airs and embrace pastoral humility—becoming shepherds who live among their flock. While his appeals to mercy, love and hope were directed at the faithful, he also raised the Church’s global moral voice on issues such as migration, climate change, capitalism and LGBTQ rights. He consistently challenged world leaders on the senselessness of war and widening inequality.

Francis also sought to reform the Vatican bureaucracy, promoting greater accountability and inclusion, particularly about gender. Reactions to his leadership varied—some labelled him a Marxist, others a liberal, a revolutionary or simply a reformer who could read the signs of the times. His papacy was thus defined by a commitment to social justice and inclusion, but also by controversy and resistance, especially from conservative factions.

In an exclusive interview with THE WEEK, French nun Nathalie Becquart—appointed by Francis as undersecretary to the synod of bishops—said that Francis was elected with a clear mandate to reform the Church and the Vatican. As the first woman with voting rights in the synod, she emphasised his efforts to empower women, ensure synodality, decentralise authority and challenge Eurocentrism. She expressed hope that his legacy would be carried forward. Excerpts:

Q: What are the key takeaways from the Francis papacy?

 A: There are many, and I think we are still processing and realising the depth of his immense legacy. When he was elected and first appeared here at Saint Peter’s, the crowd in the Piazza immediately connected with him. He asked the people to bless him, to pray for him, establishing a relationship from the start. Until the end, he remained very close to the people, not only to Catholics but to people from all walks of life and different religions. For me, he was truly the Pope of the people. He showed us how to exercise leadership not from above, but from within the community one serves. It was a deeply human way. He met so many people during his travels, and yet each time he engaged with someone, he was fully present, as if that person was the only one in the room. He embodied a very human way of being Pope and of being Christian. He reminded us that the Church’s vocation is to be close to everyone, to be a Church that serves the people. He was not only a deeply human person but also a man of great faith and prayer. He helped many people to look to God, to see Jesus as a friend, and to understand that loving God is inseparable from loving others.

You can see his legacy in the response to his death, so many people coming to pay their respects at the Basilica. The diversity was striking: families with small children, elderly people, those with disabilities, Muslims, people from every background. That speaks volumes about his message and his manner of being Pope: as a human being and as a man of faith.

I was there for Easter Mass the last time we saw him among the people. He could never see himself as a Pope disconnected from the people. His message helped us to recognise each other as brothers and sisters, part of one human family. Of course, there is diversity—different cultures, different perspectives—but we are called to unity. His funeral was a powerful witness to that, with the whole world in attendance.

Another important part of his legacy was his special attention to the poor and those without a voice. He cared deeply about them. He wanted to pay attention to everyone. He also had a special connection with young people. I remember the first time I met him, in July 2013, just a few months after his election, when he went to Rio de Janeiro for World Youth Day. Young people from all over the world were there. I still remember his words, the joy he shared, and the way he related to them. Although he was old, his mind and spirit were youthful in the way he understood and engaged with young people.

If I had to pick some keywords to describe his legacy, I would say: closeness, fraternity, dialogue, encounter and listening. Among his lasting contributions is what we are doing here now—what he initiated—this focus on synodality. He wanted a more participatory and missionary Church. We cannot understand Pope Francis without recognising his constant outward gaze, towards the people, towards service. His vision was of a missionary Church, one that spreads the joy of the Gospel. This did not mean trying to convert everyone, but rather sharing the treasure we have received as believers. As Christians, we believe that God loves us and that Jesus came to save us and call us to serve. Pope Francis often repeated one phrase: “I am a mission on this Earth.” That means we were not created to do nothing or simply exist—we were created to love and to serve others, to make an impact.

Q: Everything you have mentioned reflects what people expect from a Pope. So how does Francis’s legacy stand out?

 A: Yes, that's true—these are things expected of any Christian leader. But every Pope brings his own style and emphasis. In Pope Francis’s case, it wasn’t just about speaking the message; it was about his concrete choices and actions. From the beginning, he made distinctive decisions. He chose not to live in the Apostolic Palace, but instead in a simple guest house. He kept his old black shoes. His first trip was to Lampedusa to meet refugees and migrants. On Holy Thursday, he visited a prison to wash the feet of inmates—including women. These gestures were powerful, visible shifts in how papal authority is expressed.

So while the core Christian message remains the same, each Pope highlights different aspects. And today, as the cardinals prepare to choose the next Pope, they are considering where the world is now, what the Church faces, and what kind of leader is needed. The world has changed significantly even in the last 20 or 30 years.

Pope Francis repeatedly said that we are not just living in an era of change, but in a changing world—marked by crisis, conflict, and instability. The Church must be the same Church but in a new context. He was very aware of this and responded accordingly. For example, he focused strongly on care for migrants. Migration is not new, of course, but the scale and urgency have increased. He saw this as a key sign of our times. And he responded pastorally, not politically—just as the Bible calls us to care for the poor and the stranger.

Our roadmap as a Church is still the Second Vatican Council. But it takes time to implement its vision. Pope Francis worked to move us forward, with a dynamic, people-centred vision of the Church. He saw the Church not just as an institution, but as the people of God—not only for its members, but for all. That’s why he placed great emphasis on interreligious dialogue. This was not entirely new, but he advanced it significantly. One of his most important documents is the “Document on Human Fraternity”, which he co-signed with the Grand Imam of Al-Azhar. His predecessor, Pope Benedict, was a theologian who approached things more academically. Pope Francis, on the other hand, focused on building personal relationships—friendships and encounters. That is what led to such collaborative work.

Q: So Francis was more of an outward-looking Pope than one focused on theological depth?

A: He was still a theologian, but his theological approach was less academic and more pastoral. That, too, is a valid and meaningful way of doing theology. And he was shaped by his Jesuit spirituality, which emphasises discernment, mission and closeness to everyday life. He worked hard to communicate the core message of the Gospel in simple, accessible language. That’s why so many people felt touched by him. He spoke in images. For example, during the Angelus, instead of a formal greeting, he might say something like, “Enjoy your lunch.” That was his way of connecting with daily life and with ordinary people.

It is not that he rejected theology—far from it. It is just that each Pope brings a different emphasis, and a different style for a different moment in history. Among his other major legacies is Laudato si’, his encyclical on integral ecology. That document had a profound impact—often even more outside the Church than within it. I am French, and I remember how many political leaders, even non-Catholics, were moved by it. It had a global resonance.

He also introduced meaningful changes within the Vatican. For instance, he appointed more women to leadership roles. There were a few before, but he took significant steps—now, for the first time, there are women heading major Vatican departments. That was unprecedented.

So yes, he gave a great deal to the Church—helping it respond to today’s realities. He was also among the first to speak of a “third world war fought piecemeal”, recognising the fragmented conflicts of our time. In such a turbulent world, he tried, like his predecessors, to offer roots for peace and dialogue.

Q: In your assessment, how difficult was it for Pope Francis to carry out his mission?

A: Of course, the mission of a Pope is never easy. He emphasised the need for change—not merely based on his vision but on the vision of the Second Vatican Council, which had already stressed that the Church is, above all, a divine-human mystery rooted in God. Before being an institution or a hierarchy, the Church is the people of God, the baptised community. For many years before the Second Vatican Council, the Church saw itself more as a pyramid—a hierarchical, institutional and juridical body. Pope Francis attempted to invert that pyramid. He often used this metaphor to describe his approach: turning the pyramid upside down to ensure listening, inclusivity and servant leadership. He believed leadership should be exercised through discernment and collaboration. That was truly what he did. He was elected by the Cardinals with a clear mandate: to advance reform in the Church.

Q: There was a purpose.

A: Yes, that was the purpose. The last Conclave carried out an assessment, and the Cardinals recognised a pressing need to reform the Church, particularly the Vatican. But the Vatican is not the entirety of the Church—the Church is global. Francis, as the first Pope from outside Europe, helped the Church see itself as truly universal and multipolar, reflecting the realities of a multipolar world. I often cite this statistic: at the start of the 20th century, two-thirds of all Catholics were in Europe. Now, only about 20 per cent are in Europe.

As Europeans, we must learn to decentralise ourselves. Pope Francis helped the Church recognise that while our history has been shaped by Mediterranean, Greco-Roman and European culture, today the Church is everywhere. India, for instance, despite Catholics being a small minority, is now home to the largest number of religious sisters.

Pope Francis also helped the Church to understand that unity does not mean uniformity. True unity embraces diversity and plurality. He came at a time when the world was becoming more aware of such plurality—culturally, religiously and socially. Even countries like Italy, once almost exclusively Catholic, are now far more diverse. Francis encouraged the Church to be more welcoming of that diversity: caring for the poor, women, young people and all who have felt marginalised.

Q: You haven’t answered my question: how difficult was it for him to carry out this mission?

A: It was, indeed, difficult. As with any attempt to bring about change, resistance and fear are inevitable. That is a very human response, and it happens in every organisation. Pope Francis spoke often about the need to overcome what he called clericalism—a way of exercising authority in an authoritarian, top-down manner. Clericalism does not affect only priests and bishops. Many lay people also, over the years, have taken a passive role, believing their job was only to receive instruction while clergy led the Church.

Francis called for the participation of everyone. He often repeated the phrase “todos, todos, todos (everyone, everyone, everyone”). The Church is for all, and he called everyone not just to sit passively in pews, but to get out, take initiative and participate actively in the Church’s mission. He knew that in today’s world, the Church’s mission cannot be carried out by priests alone. It has to be a collective effort. While the role of bishops and priests remains crucial, the Pope understood he could achieve nothing alone. No leader, be it Pope, President or CEO—can enact meaningful change in isolation. He emphasised this vision of shared mission and collective leadership, including the collegial role of the bishops. Perhaps his Latin American background also influenced him—there is a stronger communal ethos there than in many Western countries, where individualism can dominate.

One powerful moment was during the pandemic. Do you remember when he prayed alone in St Peter’s Square, for the whole world? That moment captured his message perfectly—we are all in the same boat, interdependent. His leadership style was about involving everyone and staying connected with the people.

Q: The people who elected him as Pope in 2013 knew well what kind of person they were electing. But were they themselves shocked by the way he handled things and took positions on various issues?

A: Yes, but as I mentioned, I don't want to go too deep into that. However, I think it is fair to say that everyone, in some way, was shaken by Pope Francis. That is part of his impact. For example, a friend of mine, a nun living in a monastery, told me how much Pope Francis changed the way she sees people. Through him, she learned to be closer to others and to look without prejudice. That is just one example—but I think many people, myself included, have been changed by his papacy.

Pope Francis constantly called us to self-reflection and conversion. He reminded us that all of us—regardless of status—are human, fallible, and in need of transformation. His papal motto emphasised the mercy of God, and he lived by it. Just three days before his death, his final visit outside the Vatican was to a prison. He told the inmates, “Coming here, I might as well be someone like you.” That speaks volumes about his humility and his belief in human dignity. He called all of us to look inward, to change what needed changing. And that’s never easy. Transformation is difficult and people respond differently.

One of his most important theological contributions was his emphasis on listening to the people. From the Second Vatican Council, we have the idea that the whole Church possesses a sensus fidei—a “sense of faith.” This means that the Holy Spirit does not only guide the Pope and bishops but also speaks through ordinary people, even children. Francis knew that God gave gifts to all people. He helped the Church recognise that truth doesn’t reside only in the hierarchy, but can emerge from the whole community. This was a deep expression of his theology of the people, which he lived out every day.

Q: Did he try to create a new grammar of the Church or reinterpret it with his heart?

 A: Yes, that is something I have tried to highlight, that he was very human and took into account all the dimensions of the human being. So of course, the mind, the spirit, the earth and the emotions. There is a story told about the last three Popes: people came to see John Paul II, they came to listen to Pope Benedict and they came to touch Pope Francis. It is a lovely anecdote. A cardinal shared it with me, having heard it from another cardinal who has since passed away. Each Pope has emphasised different aspects of the human and spiritual experience. That is the beauty of humanity: we are all human and yet we each bring a unique perspective. Travelling widely, I have felt this commonality among people, whether in India, Brazil or elsewhere. And yet, of course, there is great diversity—in cultures, languages, ways of thinking and living.

Q: Was Francis, in a way, challenging the Eurocentric nature of the Church?

 A: Yes, I believe so. Coming from a different culture and life experience, he naturally brought another perspective. And when you encounter people who are very different from you, that inevitably presents a challenge. That may explain why some people felt unsettled — they were used to a different way of expressing and relating.

Q: Could that be one reason why he faced such resistance, especially from cardinals who wrote letters and encyclicals criticising him, mostly from the English-speaking world?

 A: Possibly. I prefer not to speak too much about that, but I often quote the Church historian John O’Malley, a well-known Jesuit scholar in the United States. He wrote extensively on councils, synods and Church reform. He said that throughout the history of Church reform, wherever the Holy Spirit is working to bring about something significant, resistance inevitably follows. This was evident during the Second Vatican Council, for example. One of its key insights was that the Pope is not isolated, but part of the College of Bishops, what we call "collegiality”. That concept faced substantial debate and resistance, yet it was vital.

This is part of the spiritual experience: where there is change, there is often fear. But Francis was also someone who listened, even to those who resisted him. He believed you could learn from them. If one emphasis becomes too strong, resistance can help rebalance things. That is how he worked, though I prefer not to go into too much detail on the criticism.

Q: The Church has always been male-dominated and largely remains so. What is your assessment of Pope Francis’ approach to gender equality?

 A: I think he was deeply convinced, as is central to the Christian message, that all people have equal dignity. He had personal experiences, with his grandmother and other women in his life, that affirmed the importance of women. His approach was always about valuing everyone, including women. He took significant steps in that direction. Until the end, he strongly believed that more women needed to be involved in the Church, particularly in leadership roles. And not just in the Church, but also in broader society. He often repeated that involving women is key to peacebuilding.

Research has shown that women's involvement is a crucial element in achieving peace. We see the same in the corporate world. Leadership decisions tend to improve with greater gender diversity. Pope Francis also spoke out forcefully against discrimination. This issue is not confined to the Church, it is societal. Most societies have been shaped by patriarchal structures. I remember a very meaningful meeting at the Vatican with women from 12 different religions: Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish and others. All of us acknowledged that while our scriptures affirm equality, our lived realities often do not reflect that. Francis sought to shift that. He took real steps to include women, including instituting ministries open to women for the first time and appointing them to leadership positions in the Vatican. He did his part.

Q: What did he say when he identified you and brought you into the Synod?

 A: As I have said, for him it was very important to involve women. He understood that change would not be easy, so he was encouraging. He was grateful to the women already serving in the Vatican and gave us support, telling us to take heart.

 Q: Did he advise you on how prepared you needed to be when you came to the Vatican?

 A: No, not in that way. He expressed himself more through his actions. When he appoints someone, he entrusts them with responsibility. He did not tell me how to do things—you are just one among many, and you are trusted to do your part. It was experimental in some ways, but not entirely new. There were already women in other dicasteries and departments. But step by step, he wanted more women involved. By the end, there were 54 women in the Synod—all with voting rights. That was unprecedented.

Q: With voting rights, that is historic.

 A: Yes, absolutely. It was the first time women were given voting rights in the Synod. For Pope Francis, action spoke louder than words. He did not just talk about inclusion, he made decisions that made it real.

Q: How was your experience as a woman with voting rights in the Synod and as part of the Vatican structure?

A: I think it was a very positive experience, not only for me but for all the women involved. The Synod followed a method that genuinely gave space for everyone’s voice.

There was a maturation process — the first assembly in October 2023, and the second in October 2024. You could see it was a learning-by-doing process. That’s how Pope Francis approaches things: put people together and let them grow together.

We learned to listen to one another. As women, we were truly at the same tables as the cardinals. And I saw with my own eyes how different bishops had different levels of experience working with women — some were used to it, others not at all.

I remember sitting at a table discussing the role of bishops — I was the only woman. I’ve worked closely with bishops for years, including ten years at the French Episcopal Conference. I brought my experience to the discussion, respectfully, of course.

At the end, one bishop told me, "Thank you for what you brought — it really helped us." At first, he couldn’t imagine such a collaboration, but once he experienced it, his perspective changed. That’s the key — it has to be experiential. That’s Pope Francis’ great gift: he opened up new experiences, for women and for others.

Q: Did you face any discrimination in the Vatican?

A: It depends. Yes, I’ve faced difficulties — whether I’d call it “discrimination” is more complicated. But definitely, there were challenges.

Much depends on cultural context. In France, I never experienced certain difficulties I encountered here in Italy. I also spent time in the United States, so I can say this experience has been unique.

Many of these challenges are unconscious. Biases are often not intentional — they’re ingrained. For instance, I’ve experienced being the only woman in a meeting, saying something that wasn’t really acknowledged, only for a male priest to say the same thing and have it accepted.

That’s happened many times. And it’s not unique to the Vatican — women in finance, politics, and many other sectors tell similar stories.

Of course, not all men are like that, and I don’t want to generalise. I’ve also had very positive experiences and good collaborations. It varies.

Ultimately, this is about a shift in mindset — and that takes time. Pope Francis helped move us forward, but there’s still a long road ahead.

Q: How did you overcome all these difficulties within a structure that is so male-dominated and centuries-old?

A: I am always thinking of so many women all around the world. What I experience here, and what I try to do, is like what many women in your countries are doing—we try simply to persevere. For me, it’s about enduring, being patient, and coping with the difficulties, because ultimately it’s about following Christ and serving the Church where you are. Even before, I faced different kinds of challenges—that’s part of life. You can also cope with that if you find mutual support and spaces where you can take some distance. In the end, it’s about being truly rooted in your faith. For me, I could only deal with it spiritually, I would say.

Q: Can we call Pope Francis a feminist Pope?

A: That depends on what you mean by “feminist”. But yes, we can say he was a Pope who was close to women and who wanted to work with women and support them. At the heart of it, it’s about mutual support. I don't know if we can use the term “feminist” because of its political connotations, but he was certainly close to many women and really wanted to dismantle patterns of domination—that was his vision. I often refer to Laudato Si’—his vision is that everything is interconnected. In that sense, it’s about shifting from a model of domination to one of cooperation. Pope Francis understood that men and women need to work together in partnership for the sake of the mission. As I often say, we are always better together as men and women.

If he did so much for women, it was also because he listened to the people. During the synodal process, voices from all over the world called urgently for greater space, participation, and leadership for women. People are crying out for that—and not only women. Increasingly, men also want a better way of respecting one another. Pope Francis listened to all of them, to women and to people from every continent urging the Church and society to be inclusive. And that, of course, includes women. When you look at the statistics, women are often the first victims of conflict, violence, unemployment, and poverty. Pope Francis was deeply connected to the poor, and he knew that women were among the most affected. But he also recognised the resilience and the gifts of women—and that those gifts are meant to benefit everyone.

Q: But he couldn't do anything when it came to the priesthood for women?

A: Yes, because his vision focused on what he saw as most important—and the road he chose to follow was to empower women in governance and leadership. He emphasised that one does not need to be ordained in order to lead. For example, he appointed a layman as head of a dicastery at the Vatican for the first time, and now women have also been appointed. For him, de-clericalising the Church was key. He believed that involving women in leadership was the real path forward. He repeatedly stressed that many leadership positions do not require ordination. Perhaps also because…

Q: Was that a convincing argument?

A: What I can say is that it’s a key issue. When I listen—not only to myself, but to others—like women priests and bishops in other churches, such as the Anglican Church, even they say that, despite being ordained, they still feel unheard. Recently, the Bishop of London said during the General Synod that women—even bishops—still experience microaggressions. So she made it clear that ordination alone does not resolve everything. It’s ultimately about a change of mindset.

Q: Are you really convinced that women can't be priests? Whether they are considered equal even after ordination is a different issue.

A: I am here to serve the Church and to support a process. What matters most is not my personal opinion. At the moment, within the Catholic Church, this is not an open question, so I won’t express myself on it. But what I am convinced of—like Pope Francis—is that the most urgent and important need today is a change of mindset. Yes, it’s cultural before anything else. It’s about transforming mentalities.

Pope Francis truly wanted to give people hope in a very desperate world. I often say he was the Pope of joy. He helped people understand that, even in dark and difficult times, we can still find hope—especially when we are together and when we receive life from God. That is why his work was so necessary. The greatest need we saw during the synodal process was this: people everywhere want to be heard, to feel welcome. Pope Francis understood that profoundly. People are yearning for hope—and that’s a message to women too.

When I was appointed, it wasn’t just about me. The symbolic importance of appointing a woman to this position—and to others where previously only men had served—was a source of joy and hope for so many people. That’s what matters.

Q: Now that Pope Francis is no more, how do you see the future of women in the Catholic Church?

A: I’m very, very confident. What Pope Francis did was guided, we believe, by the Holy Spirit. The Church is in God's hands. Every Pope since the Second Vatican Council has contributed to advancing the role of women, and that journey will continue. It’s a path that keeps unfolding. Pope Francis made significant strides, and I believe we live in a world where we cannot go backwards. I am confident about the Church’s future.

Q: Do you think Pope Francis’s legacy will be carried forward in the right spirit?

A: I think everyone here, since Pope Francis’s death, has been recognising the importance of his legacy—and that it will be continued. So yes, I’m confident.

Q: Are you hopeful or confident that the Church will get a successor to Pope Francis who will continue his policies and approach?

A: I’m very confident. As I said from the beginning, the Church is in God’s hands—and that is my faith. I feel a deep peace. Here, in this moment, there is a strong sense of peacefulness. I also believe the Holy Spirit acts with coherence. Each Pope has his own style and emphasis, but the question of women is now so important—and it’s not only coming from women. Young people especially are raising these concerns. I don’t see how this issue can be ignored. And it’s not just about women.

Q: Pope Francis also highlighted more political issues, such as concern for the environment, the poor, and migrants. Do you expect the Church to continue to prioritise those concerns?

A: I believe the Church’s priorities are based on what it sees as essential for the world today. Yes, the Church helps people connect with God—but God is with us, in our human reality. When we look at today’s challenges—migration, environmental degradation, conflict, war—what Pope Francis offered was a profound response to all of this. His efforts were recognised by so many. The presence of global leaders at his funeral demonstrated how deeply people are yearning for ways to live peacefully together and face these shared challenges. The Church will continue because these problems are not going away overnight.

That’s why the Cardinals, in their discernment, are asking: What is the state of the world? And what does the Church need to be in this world—not the world of fifty years ago? Everyone, including the people, is emphasising the same message: we must continue the work that has already been done.

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